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Why do I feel SNK hates this series?

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2009, 01:29
by SpiderDevil
I have only played the Samurai Shodown games recently, but I am now a huge fan. I feel though that SNK can't stop screwing over the series. You first have Samurai Shodown Warriors Rage which was a huge flop and was said to have killed the francise for a while. Then, you have Samurai Shodown 6. While I like the game, it doesn't feel like a Samurai Shodown game. SNK seems to be taking a different direction with their games. While King of Fighters XII had a huge graphic overhaul and a lot of hype, Samurai Shodown Sen is considered to be a failure and a Soul Calibur rip off. I wish SNK could make the series awesome again instead of making tons of mistakes.

Re: Why do I feel SNK hates this series?

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2009, 11:43
by Black Shroud
well, about their reasons, they probably are:

For Samurai Shodown Warriors Rage (since two of games were released by that name for US, I assume you are talking about latest, PSX game produced by SNK before bankrupcy), they tried to make something like Garou for FF series, i.e. a big 20 years gap in the future, ton of new characters and new storyline, while only a handful of characters are connected to previous storyline to close all things with it. That game had its share of good moments, actually they did everything about that game was very good (storyline, artwork, videos, gameplay modes, soundtrack, vocal drama cd, character designs, movesets, etc etc, the game even has its own manga) EXCEPT the most important for casual player things: polygon count and gameplay smoothness. For some unknown to me reason, polygon count on models in this game is really low, and moreso their edges arent smoothed when you play (thats while you see those character models having their edges smoothed when they appear in videos or storyline pictures). Gameplay too isnt as smooth as previous games, particularly many attacks have fast recoveries so they are hard to punish for, and characters arent pushed back after blocked attack. Instead in this game you need to take advantage from new features to punish opponent, such as abilities to stun opponent on counterhit, or if he crouches or turtles too much, and also low jump attacks (yes there are different height jumps) should be used in place of your generic BC overhead in 2D games. Im knowledgeable about this game because I played it alot online (on kaillera), so I made tier list, combo charts, etc
So the main points because of which game was bashed:
-Game cannot top previous one (Samurai Spirits Asura Zanmaden), which is obvious, since even SS:Sen cannot top it.
-Low polygonal count on character models, with lesser polygon count that in prev. game (I just play it in a window, plus ePSXe gives out better, filtered graphics than original PSX console)
-Gameplay has "stuttering" feel to it (as I said, it should be based around new features instead, this game is a hell for turtles because everyone seeks to stun opponent when possible, and punish mainly after stun, and not in the open)
-New lifebar system interrupts the flow of fights (But there is no rounds, so those interruptions between emptying lifebars are basically the same as between rounds in other games)
-Lack of classic, favourite characters (But same can be said about Garou: Mark of the Wolves, which only has Terry, so basically deal with it)
-Lack of competition (based that game wasnt released in arcades, and of course PSX had no netplay feature, but right now everyone are able to play this one online)

For Samurai Shodown 6, well first of all its a brand new game that uses different engine and basics. While it has spirit grooves for SS1-SS5 systems too, they arent 100% correct, rather like 70% correct, and they dont give you full gameplay experience of SS1-SS5. They changed ALOT of things in basic gameplay, attack speed, attack strength, defence gaps between chars, gauge filling/emptying properties, pursuits now are 50/50 game etc. Its not like SS5/sp, nor like SS4, its a game on its own. So yes, gameplay-wise it doesnt feels like Samurai Shodown game. Then lets see whats about violence. After Nevada-tan incident, japanese became largely antagonistic to "bloody slasher" type games, and previously it caused SNK big problems, because they needed to recall every cart of their bloody SS5sp, and change it with censored one, which was censored so much that it caused gameplay problems. So to avoid such problems in future they decided to left blood and fatalities from game, and instead chose a "festival theme" to it (some people call SS6 setting a "disneyland" theme because its too bright). Then lets see arenas. SNK recycled SS3 arenas partly in SS4, then recycled SS3 and SS4 arenas in SS5, then recycled some SS3, SS4 and SS5 arenas in SS5sp, so apparently they thought the cannot recycle arenas anymore and they should make brand new ones. With the game's theme being a tournament with matches being held at "festivals around the world", SNK just selected locations around the world that could house some festival, and recreated each festival on arena (so we get Halloween, Fireworks Festival, Lunar New Year, Pirate Party etc), and they also brought back SS1 world map feature to show the arenas. This may have been a good move, but arenas are all to bright, and they have festival music (which doesnt sounds at all like feudal era samurai duel music, but rather like some chinese restaurant music). So atmosphere-wise, arena-wise, music-wise, the game doesnt feels like SS game. Then lets see character voices. SNK decided that it will be good to fire nearly all the classic voice actors because they cost too much money, and hire some guy-from-the-street-5-cent-actors instead, which means that 95% of character voices in SS6 suck very-very bad, dont feel like voices of those characters, plus their classic quotes are all changed, and non-japanese characters now talk in japanese too. Because of uproar this caused, SNK was forced to re-hire classic actors to revoice 25 (I think) characters for SS:Anthology release of SS6. .......... In the end the only good thing about this game is its variety - variety of characters, of special moves, and of spirit grooves, but all of that doesnt have SS quality. SS6 is a good fighting game, but fails at being SS game.

Samurai Spirits Sen creation is motivated by following thoughts
-People are tired seeing same 2D sprites being recycled from SS3
-We cannot produce one more 2D game with them
-We cannot produce next 2D SS game with new, better 2D sprites because it means making them highres and we are hella busy with KOFXII right now
-Everyone now released 3D fightings
-We wont release a 3D SS game that is true to classic SS gameplay, because we tried it in 90's and it didnt brought us much money (and no thats probably not because we released it on underhanded arcade platform, did super low distribution of that platform, and chose to never port those games to any console)
-We better look which trends are popular in 3D fightings nowadays, and will copy those traits (hee hee) to ensure people will like our game for sure
-Lets copy Soul Calibur control scheme
-Lets copy Tekken's looooong juggle combos and slow unblockables
-Dashing and jumping suck, they arent really needed in 3D because we have sidesteps! So lets make dashing and jumping slow and unuseable
-Lets throw away all fireballs, and special/supernatural-looking special moves because Tekken and Soul Calibur dont have them (which means they arent needed in 3D fightings nowadays)
-Lets throw away the supers, and weapon-flipping feature, and variable dodges like roll, lay down, etc, again because Tekken and Soul Calibur dont have them (which means they arent needed in 3D fightings nowadays)
-Lets throw away teleports because Tek...wait there are simple teleport-like moves behind opponent's back, that have long recovery and are viable if opponent is busy doing a combo. Ok lets add such teleport into movelist of every ninja character in game cuz they're ninjas you know, and dump every other kind of teleport
-Lets throw away animal pets because Tekken and Soul Calibur dont have them....wait those are kind of our trademark. Ok lets make them coming off-screen to make some minor thing just to see that they still are in game, and they also will have cameos in character win poses.
-To make up for emptiness in character's movelists, lets go the Tekken and Soul Calibur path and add a whole bunch of normals/combos to movelists. And we dont care that 60-70% of them look the same from character to character, theres only so much directions you can swing your sword.
-Lets make one more storyline that contradicts our canon storyline
-Lets add more stereotypical characters so people can better assotiate themselves with: A knight in armor, a viking, an afro samurai, a cowboy, etc.
-Lets dispose of too much story dialogues during walkthrough, and lets make only a dialogue with sub-boss and boss, being around same from character to character
-Since we liked our White House arena in SS6 very much, lets make both boss and sub-boss americans with their arenas being in USA
-Lets make sub-boss of Samurai game a cowboy fighting with winchester rifle that has unblockable bullets
-Lets make the boss look like a marching band director, and he should have no special moves
-Finally, lets make a text-only endings like in our beloved SS3 because we dont like putting much time in endings
-Wow USA has Mortal Kombat which is supposedly popular, because of fatalities, and we had fatalities and dismemberments in the past but Japanese disliked them. So lets censor Japanese version and put many many dismemberments in overseas version of game (but characters will still be black/hollow inside like in 2D because we cant let this thing being too much uncensored), and lets base all our marketing and adware campaign of this game around "weee! spam your way to the end of battle, then DISMEMBER ur opponent! Cut them! Cut their head! Cut their arm! Cut their torso! Cut Cut Cut...... This is the most bloodiest super bloody gory violent Samurai Shodown of all times, you shouldnt play it for its gameplay, you should play it for the chance to cut your opponent's head in the end of battle and see that he is hollow and empty inside"
-Lets see how our diabolical plan of out-doing Tekken and Soul Calibur by copying Tekken and Soul Calibur comes in motion
....Oh yes and some of my contacts re-asked me which company produced SS:Sen after seeing its videos, because they thought its a NAMCO game

Re: Why do I feel SNK hates this series?

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2009, 12:40
by R3z
So, from this view I hope SS sen it's just failed attempt to bring something new to the series, and this will be a good lesson for SNKP, and they will release a good oldschool 3d SS fighting soon.(lol I'm so optimistic) But another problem is that there are a lot of anime fanservice and cheap new characters\storylines in the latest SS games. The old games was more serious and mature.
So, I want to know what will happen next: SNK releasing a good 3d fighting or emulation of SSAZ. :D